Episode 8 - Signs It Might Be Time to Outsource Your Editorial Services
Julie Willis and Rosie Stewart
Editorial and Pre-Press Directors, River Editorial
A division of Westchester Publishing Services, UK.
Nicole Tomassi:
Welcome to Westchester Words , Education, Ed tech and Publishing. I'm Nicole Tomassi and in this episode, I'll be speaking with Julie Willis and Rosie Stewart, who are the editorial and pre-press directors for River Editorial, which is a division of Westchester Publishing Services UK. They will discuss when it's practical for a publisher to outsource editorial services on their projects and share some helpful tips about what to consider when engaging with an editorial services provider. Julie and Rosie, welcome to Westchester Words.
Julie Willis:
Thanks Nicole.
Rosie Stewart:
Thank you, Nicole. It's great to be here. Thank you for having us
Nicole Tomassi:
Very glad to have both of you today. So, Julie, how about we get started with you? Can you share some of your professional background for our listeners?
Julie Willis:
Yeah. Um, I originally trained and worked as a journalist and then I moved into PR and I worked for some blue- chip clients, including First Great Western and British Telecom. And then I took a role in marketing for the University of Exeter Press, which got me into publishing. And I've worked in this , um, this sector for 20 years now, obviously my, my writing and , um, experiences working as a journalist was transferable in terms of skills . So it was not a , a completely strange move. So my clients , um , have included Taylor & Francis, Bloomsbury, and Sage, as well as smaller, independent publishers and some non-publishers as well, some institutions and private companies.
Nicole Tomassi:
Thank you Julie, and Rosie, you as well have substantial publishing experience, including nearly five years working as a journal manager at LVI . How does your professional background inform the work that you do?
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, I've been very fortunate to work in several publishing organizations, which has given me a background in different areas of production. So I started out in a small project management house where I was trained in the basics of academic book production, and I feel very fortunate to have received such a strong grounding so early in my career. I then moved into journal production at Elsevier, which was a huge contrast moving from a small family business into one of the largest information companies in the world. And I learned so much at Elsevier, particularly about the systems and technology that are available to support publishing. And I also learned about the differences between book and journal production. Speed is really at the heart of journal production in many cases, to ensure that research is available as quickly as possible. And this drives authors and publishers to seek new ways to accelerate publishing, which is really fascinating and is applicable across the board in all areas of publishing. And now I work on a mixture of books and journals, and I really enjoy having the balance of both. And based on my experience, I, I always aim to combine the personal aspects of the small family business with the systems and efficiencies that you can achieve in the larger organizations.
Nicole Tomassi:
Hmm . That's an interesting background to bring into play here. And the two of you , uh , together provide editorial services for a range of publishers as you touched on Rosie . And there are probably certain consistencies around why they'll engage with an editorial services provider. Can you discuss what some of the indicators are that a publisher should be considering bringing in an outside company for their editorial work?
Julie Willis:
Uh , yeah, we often get asked to quote for services when publishers are expanding their lists or have commissioned titles that have a non- slip and fairly short deadline, such as books being produced for a conference year end titles fall into a similar category. We offer an end-to-end service and take responsibility for delivering those books on time and on budget.
Rosie Stewart:
I really agree with Julie that using an outside company can be really brilliant for managing those fluctuations that happen throughout the year. It would be great if, if um , publishing was, was steady, you know, the same every month, but we know that that's not how it is. And what often tends to happen is you get a glut of titles all at once. Um, and we can offer some flexibility with handling those peaks and troughs without all of your, your own in-house staff needing to be tied up . Um, it can also be really helpful to allocate a whole series or a whole list to one supplier so that they can become really familiar with the style of that particular list. And they can get to know the editors and the authors really well.
Nicole Tomassi:
I would imagine that, you know, especially over the last couple of years, with all the different outside factors that have happened such as COVID , um, Brexit, even supply chain things, that's also probably put a lot of pressure on publishing deadlines in terms of when things need to be turned around or having the staff to do it. Have you seen anything like that?
Julie Willis:
Yes, we, we have , um, going back to the example, I gave a , about getting a book published on time for conference. We're now seeing lead times of at least three months for publishers to be able to get their books printed as an example of the supply chain, breaking down as a result of all sorts of problems, including COVID .
Nicole Tomassi:
What was the timeline before all of this for comparison?
Julie Willis:
That's a good question. I think Rosie , I don't know if you can help me out on this one, but I think a month would've been sufficient prior.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah. I , I agree. Four to six weeks would've been a , a standard turnaround.
Nicole Tomassi:
So essentially a doubling of the lead time is what we're seeing now.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, at least. Yeah.
Nicole Tomassi:
Wow. For listeners who are interested, Julie has developed a course about outsourcing editorial projects for the Independent Publishers Guild skills hub. And , uh , we'll be sure to include a link on the Westchester publishing services UK site for that course, which is free for members of the I P G to access. So do check that out, along with the dozens more of courses that they have available on the skills hub for independent publishers. To address another concern that's out there and just take it by the horns as it were, what would you say to a publisher who might be hesitant with an outside company because they think that it's going to be more costly in some way than if they kept those projects in house?
Julie Willis:
Yeah. I can understand concerns about budget. What we do is we produce a quote and we pretty much stick to that unless there's a really good reason why we can't. And by that, I mean that the book design is changed mid project or something really major and structural. Um , so our costs are transparent and fixed from the get go really until the delivery of the project. And obviously if you're managing a book in house , those costs are potentially harder to quantify because you'll have the in-house staff time, your freelance costs, the typesetting costs, and artwork costs to account for, whereas ours is just a single cost on the bottom line.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, it's a really good question. And we, we , as Julie says, we really do understand that publishers need to be careful about their costs. And particularly as we've just discussed , um, the there's a lot of challenges that the industry's facing with the shipping delays and rising energy and fuel costs and paper shortages. And it all has knockon effects , um, to the product that ends up on the shelf. And we are really aware of that. And we are really keen to work with publishers and with our clients to make sure that what we're offering is, is the best value for them, and we would never try to push services that aren't appropriate. Um , we don't have packages where you have to have every element. All of our quotes are bespoke and we can add and remove services depending on what's appropriate for you. And we quote for every project individually, and we're always open to discussion about that quote. And so we , we really work hard to try and make sure that we're giving our clients best value for money and that it will really be extremely efficient for them. And, and not, not us trying to tell you what you need.
Nicole Tomassi:
So it's similar to when you were with a family run organization, it's more of that one to one consultative customized approach that you guys have when working with publishers.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, absolutely. We, we always try and have a call so that we can really talk about it and understand it. We're not wiring across preprepared documents or one size fits all quotes. We , we really try and understand what is it that we can help you with and how can we , we best achieve that. And often that process might last , um , several weeks while we really get to the bottom of what's needed and we might have suggestions so that the quote that we end up with is really unique to that client.
Nicole Tomassi:
Can you address some of the other misconceptions that you may encounter when having these discussions with publishers about working with an editorial services provider?
Julie Willis:
Yeah, I , I think publishers are sometimes hesitant to hand over author liaison to , uh , an out of house supplier thinking that the author might be confused by the process and won't want to engage with us. And I can really understand that. I mean, authors are key to all of this process. Without them we wouldn't have a job. So I've found actually that, although occasionally I've had to explain the process to the author again , um, by again, I mean, we've , we always send out an intro email and the publishers will do so as well, but every single author I've dealt with has engaged with us really well and been grateful for the attention and care they've been given. We do pride ourselves on giving really good author care.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, it's a real, it's a real priority for us. I , and I think that clients sometimes might worry that by outsourcing they're losing the personal touch , um, and that's absolutely not what's happening at all. Um , we work really hard to build rapport and to make sure the authors feel well looked after. And we always assign each project to one specific project manager. So it's not being passed around. It's with one person and the author can always contact that person and ask questions and ask for updates. Um, and we provide one key contact that draws together all of the elements of the process. And so there's real clarity and there is a really personal service for, for all of our authors. That's our standard workflow.
Nicole Tomassi:
Well, I'm sure that is very reassuring, both for the publisher as well as the author, cuz as , uh , Julie said without the author, none of this happens for any of us. What are some tips that you would share with publishers to help them look within their own businesses at finding those identifying characteristics where an editorial services provider really would be the best fit for what they need?
Julie Willis:
I would suggest looking at the supplier's existing clients as a good place to start. If they are publishing in a similar area, then that's probably a good sign. And then I would suggest that you have preliminary talks and include , um, sharing your workflows and sending in sample chapters and schedules. And just seeing if your workflows align, if the schedules align, your approach aligns. But of course, bearing in mind what Rosie had just previously said, which is that most suppliers will flex to fit in with the publisher requirements. We aren't trying to , um, force the publishers to fit in with their workflows and schedules.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah. And most suppliers will have different areas of specialism. Um, for example, they might specialize in either books or journals. Um, they might specialize in fiction or nonfiction, academic or trade. So you can probably narrow down suppliers based on some of those broad strokes. And they'll also offer different levels of flexibility and scale from one or two projects , um, up to hundreds or even thousands of projects a year. So again, it depends on the quantity and the type of project that you're looking to outsource and seeing which suppliers might be suitable. Um, and some suppliers will be able to offer a range of services and others will be more specialized. And so you should be able to start to dig into that. Another consideration might be which services you need. So whether you require prereading copyediting, indexing, design , um, artwork, there's a whole range and some suppliers will offer some of those or all of those in different combinations. And you might like to have all of your services with one supplier or you might like to have them with several. Um, so for example, at Westchester, we own our own typesetting outfit in India, which means all of our type setting and design work is done in house . Um, and so we have full oversight of the whole process, which might be something that's important to some clients.
Nicole Tomassi:
Are there any, any other thoughts that you would like to share with our listeners about working with an editorial services provider?
Julie Willis:
I would say don't be afraid to try a test project with a supplier. Most suppliers will , um, will do this with you. We'll work with you on just one project and may well offer a discounted rate as a way of easing you in and allowing for the extra time that might need to be taken just to establish workflows and so on.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, that's a really good suggestion. And also just to be open to having those discussions. Um, so we are always very happy just to have that conversation. You don't need to necessarily know exactly what you want. We are happy just to talk with you and see what we can offer. See what you're looking for. We might have some suggestions that you haven't thought of. We're happy to provide non-obligation quotes. Yeah. Just to get in touch and see whether it is something that might work for you.
Nicole Tomassi:
That's good. It takes the pressure off the publisher significantly and they can kind of have an idea of what the possibilities would be. One last question for each of you, if there was one piece of advice that you wish someone had given you, when you were first starting out in publishing or that you would want to share forward with fellow publishing professionals, what would that be?
Julie Willis:
I'm gonna talk about mistakes, even though
Nicole Tomassi:
We don't make any,
Julie Willis:
We don't make any , do we no?
Nicole Tomassi:
Well,
Julie Willis:
The truth is that occasionally one does and that's okay. As long as you own them and learn from them. I've made mistakes in the past. They haven't been catastrophic, although they felt like it at the time, but I have rectified the problem and I've learned a huge amount from them. There is no such thing as the perfect book, something that's bandied around an awful lot. Um, but we always continue to strive for that and through doing so you do end up producing books that hopefully the publisher you're working for is proud of and that you are proud of. And of course you have your name in there, which is a very lasting Testament to the effort that you've put in.
Rosie Stewart:
For me. I always try and remember that every project is special and important to the author. Um , we in the publishing industry might be working on hundreds of projects over the years, but each one means so much to the person who wrote it. So I always treat every project with respect and remember that it's a great privilege to be part of publishing someone's work.
Nicole Tomassi:
That is a wonderful perspective. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for both of you, Julie and Rosie , taking the time to join me today, to talk about the realities about using an editorial services provider. I'm very sure that you've given our listeners a lot of good information to consider.
Julie Willis:
Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Rosie Stewart:
It's been really great to chat with you , Nicole and Julie . Thank you.
Nicole Tomassi:
Thank you for listening to this episode of Westchester words . If you're looking for previous episodes or want to read additional content that has been shared by some of our guests, please visit our websites, Westchester publishing services.com and Westchester education services.com for an international perspective, check out our sister podcast, Westchester words, UK and international available on the Westchester education, UK Westchestereducation.co.uk or wherever you stream podcasts. We love hearing from our listeners and welcome your emails at Westchester Words at WestchesterEdSvcs.com. Tell us what you enjoy hearing on our podcast or suggest topics that we can cover in future episodes. Speaking of future episodes, I look forward to having you join us for the next episode of Westchester words , when we'll be having another engaging conversation about a topic of interest to the education, ed tech and publishing communities until then stay safe, be well and stay tuned.