Episode 8 - Editorial Processes, Part 2: Working with Freelancers
Guest: Kat Mitchell
Publishing Services Manager, emc design
Rosie Stewart:
Hi, and welcome to Westchester Words, UK I'm Rosie Stewart , editorial and pre-press director at River Editorial. A division of Westchester publishing services UK. I previously caught up with Kat Mitchell publishing services manager at EMC design to discuss how the pre-reading process has changed over the years, and to think about how we can adapt and grow with emerging technology. You can find that earlier episode on our podcast, page Westchester words . I am really pleased to be welcoming KA again for a second conversation. Thank you Kat for joining us again.
Kat Mitchell:
Hi Rosie . Thanks for having me back.
Rosie Stewart:
So for this episode, I'd like to focus on the pool of freelance editors and proofreads that we work with. So frequently. Over the years, we've built up a fantastic network of freelancers at river editorial and Westchester Education, and we hugely value and appreciate this hardworking team that's often hidden behind the scenes. How do you build and maintain your pool of freelancers at EMC?
Kat Mitchell:
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's honestly amazing and, and wonderful how the publishing industry can feel so sort of small and tightknit on the one hand, but then how wide and varied the pool of freelancers is on the other. Um , given where we sort of sit in the industry with ELT and education material, we're really quite fortunate to have lots of experience with different publishers mm-hmm <affirmative> . So we get to know various editors' quirks, and sort of ways of working through their markups. You know, how we were talking previously about the language of markups, you get that real feel for them mm-hmm <affirmative> and then you kind of build relationships from there. We do sort of maintain a pool of freelancers that we work with most frequently. Um , those that we, you know, have really good relationships with, but on top of that, you know, you probably go to the same kind of places. We love the fact that there's things like the C I E P um , the EFA and even smaller, newer places like Book Machine, and the ELT publishing professionals group, as well as editorial suppliers. Like you guys <laugh>
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, you made loads of really great points in there. And we are in the same situation in that we work with lots of different clients, which gives us the opportunity to work with their networks as well and make new connections. Um , and what we do find is that the same names often pop up. I don't know if you have that experience as well. Yeah, definitely. So thinking about those clients, those varied clients that we work with as an author or a publisher, obviously you want to know that your work is in the best hands. And we pride ourselves on maintaining consistently high standards across our services. And we quality check all of our freelancers before we assign them to a live project, as I'm sure you do as well. Mm-hmm <affirmative> from your point of view, what did the most important skills or qualities you look for in a freelancer?
Kat Mitchell:
You know, it's funny you talk about the , before you assign them to live projects, but I always find that it's in those live projects that you really get to know them and, and find out where you pick up on their best qualities. Yeah. And I think best qualities that we've sort of found have been around three big key things. First one, obviously being able to understand and follow briefing documents , um, that's obviously incredibly vital. Great decision making skills as well. And just generally being open to self-reflection. We love working with people who know whether a brief has enough information for them to complete the job, you know, to the standard that both they and we are looking for. Um, we love working with people who ask the right kind of questions at the beginning of the project and throughout mm-hmm <affirmative> and, you know, people who are willing to hear feedback and take it on as the project evolves , um, you know, being able to sort of do a sample or put something through that says, you know, hi, this is what I think we need to do here. Do you think this is right? Or should we approach it a different way rather than kind of taking it on their own skin and at the end of the mm-hmm <affirmative> at the end of the stage going, oh wait, no, that's not actually what we wanted. Yeah. So what we found is that from those kinds of qualities, you end up with editors who love to learn, love to get better at what they do. And they love to work with people in new and interesting ways , um, particularly to help make things more efficient and effective as well, ones who are ready to kind of take on that learning process. And, you know, that, that obviously goes both ways. We try and be that with our clients and our suppliers as well.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah. Thank you so much for that. I think that open communication is really, really key isn't it? And having communication throughout the project and not just at the end. Yeah . Because I think sometimes we think of feedback as something that you do when you finish like an evaluation <laugh> , but actually having those conversations early on can make things so much more efficient. And as you say, maybe just a misunderstanding, was this what you wanted? Was it this or a suggestion for how to do something better?
Kat Mitchell:
Yeah. Or whether globals can work, you know, do you really need absolutely tp mark that all of the threes need to be a different font each time?
Rosie Stewart:
That kinda thing. Yes , absolutely. And you mentioned samples as well. We use samples a lot, so, yeah . Um , so sending a , a small or partial project, maybe one chapter or something like that, mm-hmm <affirmative> for the freelancer to work on. And then we both exchange feedback and ideas before we move on. Is that the same sort of way that you would use a sample?
Kat Mitchell:
Yeah, exactly. Or even with a live project where we're pretty sure we wanna work with someone, but actually we'd like to make sure that they know how we like to work or how the client likes to see something come back and we say, okay, can you get me this chapter early? And then we can go and make sure that that is what we're expecting them to do. And it covers all of the parts of
Rosie Stewart:
The brief. Yeah, absolutely. But I really would encourage freelancers to request or suggest samples themselves as well, because I think it's an opportunity for them to determine is this project within my scope, do I understand what's required? Are there certain ways to work? And so I would always be very happy if someone said, can I send you the first chapter to check? Yes . For example, mm-hmm <affirmative> I would take that as a really good sign. So I would, would definitely encourage that in any freelancer, as long as there's time, obviously.
Kat Mitchell:
<laugh> <laugh>
Rosie Stewart:
Um , which I think we'll probably look at in a minute <laugh> so sometimes we do require specialist knowledge of a particular subject, for example, a foreign language or science, maths, or even legal expertise. Is this something you've come across at EMC?
Kat Mitchell:
Yeah, absolutely. And at times it feels like the pool of editors for some subjects are getting smaller and smaller, you know, like high level STEM subjects often you'll have people with great subject specialist skills, you know, they know everything there is to know about A level physics. Um , but maybe they're editorial technique could use some refining or they've just not been proofreaders for very long, that kind of thing. So sometimes what we find is that we have to work with a couple of people to kind of pull in both of those skillsets and create sort of a team that can work together to make sure that both aspects of the project have been covered. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and then, yeah, if it's a subject area, we've not had a chance to work with frequently or work with external people yet, or one where we don't work on it very often. Um , we're never too proud to kind of chat with the clients and see who they would suggest or use.
Rosie Stewart:
Yeah, absolutely. It's those specialists subjects, isn't it, and I really love what you said there about sometimes you can find one person that can do both and that is obviously the jackpot <laugh> . Um , but that may not be the case and that may not be the only option. Yeah . So thinking back to our previous discussion about the journey from hard copy to electronic proof markup and the more recent development of digital and platform based publishing, what impact do you think these areas have had on freelance editors and proofreaders?
Kat Mitchell:
Yeah, I mean, as we talked about last time, you can definitely tell that there's been sort of a steep learning curve during the move to PDF markups. And given that there still isn't really a recognized standard way of doing this, you can definitely see that it's having an impact on the one thing. The editors pride themselves, most accuracy and clarity, but a couple of things that we're finding in that sort of move towards more digital workflows and, and agile workflows is that schedules are becoming a bit more pressurized and, you know, content is becoming a bit more batched. Um, and I think that's part of the whole process of getting to that more agile way of working, but some people can, and some people can't work that way. You know, people that we trust and know are great editorial minds, but they just find it a little too difficult to work with the platform or maybe the feedback method, which is just new and , and slightly different. So I do think it's a steep learning curve and with a lot of high pressure demands in a lot of cases, and you're not able to necessarily book your time and capacity in the way that you would want to.
Rosie Stewart:
Normally, that's a really good point, isn't it ? Because if you are working on, say a book, all in one go, you, you block out however many weeks to work on that book. Whereas this is a totally different approach of having batches and fast moving and maybe a bit comes and then , then there's a break and yeah . And it's immediate, you're making changes maybe directly into a platform. Yeah, exactly. And also the methods that you're using mm-hmm <affirmative> may vary from project to project . It's not that you're learning one new type of working it's you need to be really agile even moment to moment. So what would you say to someone in the light of what we've just discussed, who is looking to stay up to date with their editing or proofreading skills, or is just starting out in the industry?
Kat Mitchell:
I think I'm probably starting to sound a bit like a broken record, but particularly for those just starting out and, and really, I guess, for anyone be open to learning continually and the fact that, you know, you're never gonna know humility and self-reflection are key. So read up, read lots, and when you can afford it, buy those copy editing books and take those courses to make sure your skills are top notch . Um , set aside time in your budget and schedule, you know, make that capacity for yourself for personal and professional development and focus on figuring out what you don't know, you know, ask for feedback at every job. And like we said before during the job, ask for feedback, talk to publishers, talk to packagers about what they're , you know, what they need and what skills they need and what they think you can do to help keep your skills up, find networking groups, forums for other qualified professional people. You know, if there's at least three or four Facebook groups that I can think of , um, the C I E P community forums. Um , and you know, especially now that we're back to seeing people in the physical world, again, go to events, go and go and see people. It's not easy for everyone, but it does make a big difference in the industry, being able to talk to people and , and see what everyone's up to.
Rosie Stewart:
Absolutely. And just to completely emphasize that you and I met at a publishing event
Kat Mitchell:
Exactly.
Rosie Stewart:
A few months ago, and all of these conversations have come off the back of that meeting. Absolutely, and I've certainly had so many kind of new ideas and new insights from our conversation. And sometimes just talking to somebody, you know, we didn't plan that. We didn't expect, we didn't meet up to have a conversation about that, but so much has come from it. And that's just from a , you know , a casual interaction. So really can't overstate how important these events are, if you can make them. Yeah . So Kat I have one final question for you? Hmm . I would love to know what do you enjoy most about your work? <laugh> ,
Kat Mitchell:
You know how to ask the really tough questions.
Rosie Stewart:
<laugh> um ,
Kat Mitchell:
Hmm . I mean, I love everything really, but, and this is gonna sound super nerdy, but I think I probably love the fact that I get to see and be a part of just about every stage of the publishing process, sort of from manuscript to press PDF. Um, I find it super satisfying to be able to see the finished product and know just how much hard work went into it. Um , you must feel this way as well, that, you know, the way you're able to fully appreciate works that are out there in the world, just because you understand the decisions that were likely made along the way and the work that has been involved in creating it.
Rosie Stewart:
Absolutely. Yeah. It gives you such an appreciation for every book, every journal, every magazine that you see out there, understanding how much has gone into it. So yeah, there is a huge sense of fulfillment in completing and contributing to these projects. Well, thank you so much for joining me for this second installment, Kat. I've really enjoyed catching up with you again, you
Kat Mitchell:
As well. It's been really fun. Thanks so much for having me on.
Rosie Stewart:
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